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	<title>Comments on: STOP PRESS: Nick Clegg ends Lib Dem equidistance</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2009/09/16/stop-press-nick-clegg-ends-lib-dem-equidistance/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2009/09/16/stop-press-nick-clegg-ends-lib-dem-equidistance/</link>
	<description>“ferocity with a purpose”</description>
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		<title>By: Matthew Huntbach</title>
		<link>http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2009/09/16/stop-press-nick-clegg-ends-lib-dem-equidistance/comment-page-1/#comment-216211</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Huntbach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Sep 2009 13:33:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/?p=2716#comment-216211</guid>
		<description>Nick Clegg in this pamphlet gives the impression that the Labour Party replaced the Liberal Party in the early part of the 20th century because it had better policies. This is incorrect. Its policies then were incoherent. It was the Liberal Party, with its &quot;Yellow Book&quot; which produced the most coherent policy response to the times.

The Labour Party won out because before it was founded, politics was seen as a competition between wealthy people for power. One lot was toffs but claimed this meant they were naturally better and would look after the people in a more paternalistic way, the other lot weren&#039;t quite in that social bracket and had the message &quot;work really hard, and you might just become types like us&quot;.   

The Labour Party came along and looked not like some superior class, but an organisation of ordinary people which said &quot;Don&#039;t just choose between those two sorts of governors, band together and let&#039;s put a few people like ourselves into Parliament&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nick Clegg in this pamphlet gives the impression that the Labour Party replaced the Liberal Party in the early part of the 20th century because it had better policies. This is incorrect. Its policies then were incoherent. It was the Liberal Party, with its &#8220;Yellow Book&#8221; which produced the most coherent policy response to the times.</p>
<p>The Labour Party won out because before it was founded, politics was seen as a competition between wealthy people for power. One lot was toffs but claimed this meant they were naturally better and would look after the people in a more paternalistic way, the other lot weren&#8217;t quite in that social bracket and had the message &#8220;work really hard, and you might just become types like us&#8221;.   </p>
<p>The Labour Party came along and looked not like some superior class, but an organisation of ordinary people which said &#8220;Don&#8217;t just choose between those two sorts of governors, band together and let&#8217;s put a few people like ourselves into Parliament&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2009/09/16/stop-press-nick-clegg-ends-lib-dem-equidistance/comment-page-1/#comment-216207</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 13:19:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/?p=2716#comment-216207</guid>
		<description>...a liberal’s starting point is the
freedom and integrity of the individual...

That bit should go in foci.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;a liberal’s starting point is the<br />
freedom and integrity of the individual&#8230;</p>
<p>That bit should go in foci.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Otten</title>
		<link>http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2009/09/16/stop-press-nick-clegg-ends-lib-dem-equidistance/comment-page-1/#comment-216206</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Otten</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 13:14:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/?p=2716#comment-216206</guid>
		<description>On a narrow point: We happen to be on a journey to a better society. Contrast the present with Victorian/Feudal times. This is not to claim inevitability, just that the stock is currently rising over the long term.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On a narrow point: We happen to be on a journey to a better society. Contrast the present with Victorian/Feudal times. This is not to claim inevitability, just that the stock is currently rising over the long term.</p>
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		<title>By: Anthony Barnett</title>
		<link>http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2009/09/16/stop-press-nick-clegg-ends-lib-dem-equidistance/comment-page-1/#comment-216205</link>
		<dc:creator>Anthony Barnett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 13:13:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/?p=2716#comment-216205</guid>
		<description>Thanks Stuart I do mean that but there are many more NGOs who need a bit of waking up as well. I hope Power 2010 will do some shaking. But, James, beware of trying to &quot;exploit&quot; Climate Camp! Language, language!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Stuart I do mean that but there are many more NGOs who need a bit of waking up as well. I hope Power 2010 will do some shaking. But, James, beware of trying to &#8220;exploit&#8221; Climate Camp! Language, language!</p>
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		<title>By: James Graham</title>
		<link>http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2009/09/16/stop-press-nick-clegg-ends-lib-dem-equidistance/comment-page-1/#comment-216204</link>
		<dc:creator>James Graham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 11:38:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/?p=2716#comment-216204</guid>
		<description>There are certainly some parallels with what I&#039;ve written and what Anthony has (which can be found &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.opendemocracy.net/blog/ourkingdom/anthony-barnett/2009/09/17/the-lib-dems-whats-wrong-with-them&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;).  And yes, there is a constituency in things like Climate Camp we need to exploit.

Far too often initiatives like this are written off by the party establishment as being lead by extremist radicals. It certainly is the case that it has always been a core part of, for example Socialist Worker strategy, to get in with these groups.  But one of the reasons a number of us were so keen to get the party participating in the anti-war demo in 2003 was that we recognised that the anti-war movement was far, far wider than that. Despite that, I don&#039;t think Kennedy got it and I&#039;ve yet to see Clegg make meaningful moves in that direction either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are certainly some parallels with what I&#8217;ve written and what Anthony has (which can be found <a href="http://www.opendemocracy.net/blog/ourkingdom/anthony-barnett/2009/09/17/the-lib-dems-whats-wrong-with-them" rel="nofollow">here</a>).  And yes, there is a constituency in things like Climate Camp we need to exploit.</p>
<p>Far too often initiatives like this are written off by the party establishment as being lead by extremist radicals. It certainly is the case that it has always been a core part of, for example Socialist Worker strategy, to get in with these groups.  But one of the reasons a number of us were so keen to get the party participating in the anti-war demo in 2003 was that we recognised that the anti-war movement was far, far wider than that. Despite that, I don&#8217;t think Kennedy got it and I&#8217;ve yet to see Clegg make meaningful moves in that direction either.</p>
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		<title>By: Stuart White</title>
		<link>http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2009/09/16/stop-press-nick-clegg-ends-lib-dem-equidistance/comment-page-1/#comment-216203</link>
		<dc:creator>Stuart White</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 11:29:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/?p=2716#comment-216203</guid>
		<description>I wonder if the &#039;liberal movement&#039; that James envisages is best thought of in formal party terms. Anthony Barnett has an interesting post on Clegg&#039;s pamphlet at OurKingdom where he comments on the failure of the Lib Dems to connect their agenda with that of unruly citizen politics of a non-party kind - I guess he means things like Climate Camp or, perhaps, London Citizens (or Power2010). Maybe a &#039;liberal movement&#039; will emerge as much from these civil society groups as from the Lib Dems. And it might feed into, and get fed by, other parties, including Labour and the Greens.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder if the &#8216;liberal movement&#8217; that James envisages is best thought of in formal party terms. Anthony Barnett has an interesting post on Clegg&#8217;s pamphlet at OurKingdom where he comments on the failure of the Lib Dems to connect their agenda with that of unruly citizen politics of a non-party kind &#8211; I guess he means things like Climate Camp or, perhaps, London Citizens (or Power2010). Maybe a &#8216;liberal movement&#8217; will emerge as much from these civil society groups as from the Lib Dems. And it might feed into, and get fed by, other parties, including Labour and the Greens.</p>
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		<title>By: James Graham</title>
		<link>http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2009/09/16/stop-press-nick-clegg-ends-lib-dem-equidistance/comment-page-1/#comment-216200</link>
		<dc:creator>James Graham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 09:38:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/?p=2716#comment-216200</guid>
		<description>The SLF isn&#039;t a think tank. Not yet. At the moment we&#039;re still in the setting up Facebook group stage. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The SLF isn&#8217;t a think tank. Not yet. At the moment we&#8217;re still in the setting up Facebook group stage. <img src='http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Alix</title>
		<link>http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2009/09/16/stop-press-nick-clegg-ends-lib-dem-equidistance/comment-page-1/#comment-216198</link>
		<dc:creator>Alix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 08:45:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/?p=2716#comment-216198</guid>
		<description>Re: building the liberal movement, that&#039;s the first time I&#039;ve heard it expressed that this might involve lots of reading and writing as opposed to lots of setting up Facebook groups. I can do reading and writing! Shall we start a think tank?

Oh, you already have. Bother.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: building the liberal movement, that&#8217;s the first time I&#8217;ve heard it expressed that this might involve lots of reading and writing as opposed to lots of setting up Facebook groups. I can do reading and writing! Shall we start a think tank?</p>
<p>Oh, you already have. Bother.</p>
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		<title>By: Oranjepan</title>
		<link>http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2009/09/16/stop-press-nick-clegg-ends-lib-dem-equidistance/comment-page-1/#comment-216197</link>
		<dc:creator>Oranjepan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Sep 2009 05:36:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/?p=2716#comment-216197</guid>
		<description>From what I read there are some good things in this paper, but it also needs some fleshing out.

The targetting strategy remains worthwhile, but it goes with the depressing tactic of hoovering up protest votes. As we continue to grow as a political force we are going through the growing pains of developing an all-encompassing stance and becoming more coherent (as seen with Gavin Webb, whose defection to the fringe LPUK shows we have a more resolute and definable core), thereby becoming less dependent on targetting and showing ourselves to be a party more capable of governing (with a track record in major authorities to prove it).

This matches our ability to join up campaign thinking to show there IS a narrative behind our philosophy. Our critique during the economic crisis has turned into a growing attack on the market distortions caused by Labour&#039;s unbalanced tax and spend policies and the false incentives vreated through city bonuses structures, while the expenses scandal showed our inherent distaste for corrupt and dishonest practices.

This recent desire for a more honest appraisal of situations traces its&#039; way back to the pure lies disseminated in the run up to the invasion of Iraq, and followed through with our somewhat heartless dumping of Kennedy, Oaten and Ming Campell from their positions in the party - we have thankfully started to judge ourselves by the standards we set ourselves.

But there is still much lacking. For example with Jo Swinsons&#039; &#039;Real Women&#039; campaign - it is a good start, but what about the other half of the issue? Are we intending to start a &#039;Real Men&#039; campaign?

Once we start linking together these issues we will give voice to an underlying &#039;honesty&#039; narrative that is at the heart of what we stand for. Honesty means accepting all sides of the unpleasant truth and finding a balance between them to enable forward movement.

We want to be seen as honest brokers and we have made lots of tentative steps in this direction. We know it is the best way, but we need to be more realistic and say that in the long run it is the only way.

The choice which faces the country must be between those parties happy to play with the truth where it suits them to do so and a LibDem party which refuses to deny the truth even when it is uncomfortable.

This might be a difficult choice for many to make, but it is the real choice.

Hmm, I&#039;m veering off into speechwriting mode. If I&#039;d planned it it might&#039;ve sounded really good...

Anyway I&#039;ve not got a problem with equidistance, so long as it means equally distant from Labour and tories rather than slap bang between them and trying to play divide and conquer: we might be geeks and freaks but we can trade successfully on the fact we&#039;re set apart from their slice &#039;n&#039; dice consensualism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From what I read there are some good things in this paper, but it also needs some fleshing out.</p>
<p>The targetting strategy remains worthwhile, but it goes with the depressing tactic of hoovering up protest votes. As we continue to grow as a political force we are going through the growing pains of developing an all-encompassing stance and becoming more coherent (as seen with Gavin Webb, whose defection to the fringe LPUK shows we have a more resolute and definable core), thereby becoming less dependent on targetting and showing ourselves to be a party more capable of governing (with a track record in major authorities to prove it).</p>
<p>This matches our ability to join up campaign thinking to show there IS a narrative behind our philosophy. Our critique during the economic crisis has turned into a growing attack on the market distortions caused by Labour&#8217;s unbalanced tax and spend policies and the false incentives vreated through city bonuses structures, while the expenses scandal showed our inherent distaste for corrupt and dishonest practices.</p>
<p>This recent desire for a more honest appraisal of situations traces its&#8217; way back to the pure lies disseminated in the run up to the invasion of Iraq, and followed through with our somewhat heartless dumping of Kennedy, Oaten and Ming Campell from their positions in the party &#8211; we have thankfully started to judge ourselves by the standards we set ourselves.</p>
<p>But there is still much lacking. For example with Jo Swinsons&#8217; &#8216;Real Women&#8217; campaign &#8211; it is a good start, but what about the other half of the issue? Are we intending to start a &#8216;Real Men&#8217; campaign?</p>
<p>Once we start linking together these issues we will give voice to an underlying &#8216;honesty&#8217; narrative that is at the heart of what we stand for. Honesty means accepting all sides of the unpleasant truth and finding a balance between them to enable forward movement.</p>
<p>We want to be seen as honest brokers and we have made lots of tentative steps in this direction. We know it is the best way, but we need to be more realistic and say that in the long run it is the only way.</p>
<p>The choice which faces the country must be between those parties happy to play with the truth where it suits them to do so and a LibDem party which refuses to deny the truth even when it is uncomfortable.</p>
<p>This might be a difficult choice for many to make, but it is the real choice.</p>
<p>Hmm, I&#8217;m veering off into speechwriting mode. If I&#8217;d planned it it might&#8217;ve sounded really good&#8230;</p>
<p>Anyway I&#8217;ve not got a problem with equidistance, so long as it means equally distant from Labour and tories rather than slap bang between them and trying to play divide and conquer: we might be geeks and freaks but we can trade successfully on the fact we&#8217;re set apart from their slice &#8216;n&#8217; dice consensualism.</p>
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