On reflection, it however is important in some respects as the suggestion of electing police chiefs or police authorities, is taking place against a general background of political debate about the constitution and a new bill of rights etc.

To me civil rights or I prefer basic human rights are those which control the states power over the individual, as such these instruments of control need to be apolitical and therefore should not be decided by the very people who are at present in control of the state.

They are interested in any case by the concept of rights where the state supplies certain benefits to the citizen in return for certain obligations by the citizen to the state. Whilst at the same time they are whittling away are those remaining rights we have as individuals against state interference.

These basic rights should be confined to those areas which concern basic freedom from interference and basic protection for the individual from the power of the state. Included for instance; might be a clear division of powers between the police and the courts, a control of police powers to act independently. Trial by jury before punishment, independence of the jury decisions, in fact a return to the concept of English Common Law, where the law is the peoples law and not the states law and is enforced by the will of the people and not the state.

The other so called rights could well be left to the popular vote at elections, we do not know for certain, for instance: that we will want a state sponsored national health service or education service, for all time in the future. Anyway both of these demand an obligation by the individual to pay the bills and do not fall into the previous category of an individuals protection against the state. I am not here arguing against either the NHS or state education merely pointing out that they are not basic rights, but rather social agreements that we are all happy to contribute to and benefit from.

I have to admit I didn’t know they had already been turned down for a warrant.

Ken,

I don’t believe I said elected police commissioners would be politicised in the “same manner” but they would be politicised for the worse. We would see even more populist posturing, less inter-departmental cooperation and even more of a blame culture every time something went wrong.

Not I hasten to add is that an argument for the Conservatives as supporters of civil liberties, I believe you are absolutely right in description of the David Davis affair. Which means we should understand that they are not likely to undue the damage New Labour has done.

Central Conservative policy seems to be to allow one or two back bench spokesmen to voice very strong messages on contentious issues such as the EU or civil liberties. Thus giving the impression that they are in fact verbalising conservative policy, when in fact all they are doing is giving their personal views, and views that have no chance of being adopted as party policy.

The search without a warrant went ahead after the ‘occupier of the premises’ (the Commons authorities) gave permission in any event.

What, as I understand it, is in dispute is whether the police told the Sergeant-at-Arms that she could lawfully refuse permission- although even if they didn’t it remains unanswered whyh she didn’t take advice from the Speaker’s Counsel.