Comments on: Nick Clegg dismisses u-turn on tax as “mere details” http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2008/09/08/nick-clegg-dismisses-u-turn-on-tax-as-mere-details/ “ferocity with a purpose” Sat, 13 Mar 2010 20:30:54 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: David http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2008/09/08/nick-clegg-dismisses-u-turn-on-tax-as-mere-details/comment-page-1/#comment-200847 David Tue, 09 Sep 2008 11:19:56 +0000 http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/?p=1613#comment-200847 Maybe I'm not reading the details enough, but we need to be able to say what our policy is in simple language - and it needs to be tied to basic principles. I've been a member of the party for almost 36 years and unfortunately we don't seem to know where we're going Maybe I’m not reading the details enough, but we need to be able to say what our policy is in simple language – and it needs to be tied to basic principles. I’ve been a member of the party for almost 36 years and unfortunately we don’t seem to know where we’re going

]]> By: Joe Otten http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2008/09/08/nick-clegg-dismisses-u-turn-on-tax-as-mere-details/comment-page-1/#comment-200705 Joe Otten Mon, 08 Sep 2008 18:34:55 +0000 http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/?p=1613#comment-200705 Free use of public courts would be a lot cheaper than free lessons. Still it is a fair point that we're not used to talking about spending cuts, and we would probably all feel more comfortable (or less comfortable) if we knew specifically what these cuts are. Unfortunately if we say what they are today, the Tories will nick them tomorrow. Labour probably won't - for them the acid test of spending seems to be how well-intentioned it is. Free use of public courts would be a lot cheaper than free lessons. Still it is a fair point that we’re not used to talking about spending cuts, and we would probably all feel more comfortable (or less comfortable) if we knew specifically what these cuts are. Unfortunately if we say what they are today, the Tories will nick them tomorrow. Labour probably won’t – for them the acid test of spending seems to be how well-intentioned it is.

]]> By: Hywel http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2008/09/08/nick-clegg-dismisses-u-turn-on-tax-as-mere-details/comment-page-1/#comment-200704 Hywel Mon, 08 Sep 2008 18:21:27 +0000 http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/?p=1613#comment-200704 "Better pensions, frankly, demand an increase in the retirement age." I agree - but that isn't what we're advocating The free tennis lessons is a reference to an interview Nick did on R5 just after Make it Happen was launched and during Wimbledon. The issue of the cost of playing tennis on public courts came up and Nick suggested that making it free for at least under 16s might be a good idea to encourage more kids to play. I don't mention it as a serious policy commitment (it's a local authority matter in any case) but as an illustration that we seem to want to be the party advocating large tax cuts but are still keen on making spending commitments. Lower tax means less spending and that is not something I'm convinced the party is facing up to. “Better pensions, frankly, demand an increase in the retirement age.”

I agree – but that isn’t what we’re advocating

The free tennis lessons is a reference to an interview Nick did on R5 just after Make it Happen was launched and during Wimbledon. The issue of the cost of playing tennis on public courts came up and Nick suggested that making it free for at least under 16s might be a good idea to encourage more kids to play.

I don’t mention it as a serious policy commitment (it’s a local authority matter in any case) but as an illustration that we seem to want to be the party advocating large tax cuts but are still keen on making spending commitments. Lower tax means less spending and that is not something I’m convinced the party is facing up to.

]]> By: James Schneider http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2008/09/08/nick-clegg-dismisses-u-turn-on-tax-as-mere-details/comment-page-1/#comment-200698 James Schneider Mon, 08 Sep 2008 17:59:59 +0000 http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/?p=1613#comment-200698 No. No abandoning. I was just seeking clarification. No. No abandoning. I was just seeking clarification.

]]> By: James Graham http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2008/09/08/nick-clegg-dismisses-u-turn-on-tax-as-mere-details/comment-page-1/#comment-200697 James Graham Mon, 08 Sep 2008 17:52:17 +0000 http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/?p=1613#comment-200697 Hywel's ref to ending inequality is to pensions - i.e. to create a citizen's pension based on residency not years worked. If you're saying we are abandoning that policy after a year since we (specifically Danny Alexander) reaffirmed it, it's news to me. Hywel’s ref to ending inequality is to pensions – i.e. to create a citizen’s pension based on residency not years worked. If you’re saying we are abandoning that policy after a year since we (specifically Danny Alexander) reaffirmed it, it’s news to me.

]]> By: James Schneider http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2008/09/08/nick-clegg-dismisses-u-turn-on-tax-as-mere-details/comment-page-1/#comment-200685 James Schneider Mon, 08 Sep 2008 17:26:38 +0000 http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/?p=1613#comment-200685 Hywel, How are the Lib Dems going to "end inequality between men and women"? With spending? How? Free tennis lessons? When did that policy come out? It just seems bizarre. Hywel,

How are the Lib Dems going to “end inequality between men and women”? With spending? How?

Free tennis lessons? When did that policy come out? It just seems bizarre.

]]> By: James Graham http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2008/09/08/nick-clegg-dismisses-u-turn-on-tax-as-mere-details/comment-page-1/#comment-200682 James Graham Mon, 08 Sep 2008 17:21:07 +0000 http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/?p=1613#comment-200682 I see Joe - so it is our responsibility to ask Clegg what he means, not his responsibility to explain himself. Maybe we should put that on all our literature from now until polling day. I'm sure that will work really well. We could have a picture of Clegg on them looking fierce saying "DON'T MOCK WHAT YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND!!!" Genius. Presentation is for losers. I see Joe – so it is our responsibility to ask Clegg what he means, not his responsibility to explain himself.

Maybe we should put that on all our literature from now until polling day. I’m sure that will work really well. We could have a picture of Clegg on them looking fierce saying “DON’T MOCK WHAT YOU DON’T UNDERSTAND!!!”

Genius. Presentation is for losers.

]]> By: Joe Otten http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2008/09/08/nick-clegg-dismisses-u-turn-on-tax-as-mere-details/comment-page-1/#comment-200681 Joe Otten Mon, 08 Sep 2008 17:15:32 +0000 http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/?p=1613#comment-200681 Hywel, a high speed rail network wouldn't have to be paid for in one year, and I'm assuming the £20bn is an annual figure. Cut-price trident is a saving compared to full-price trident. Better pensions, frankly, demand an increase in the retirement age. I don't expect, when I am 120, my pension, and that of my children of 95 and their children of 70 will all be paid for by my great grandchildren of 45, who are also supporting their children of 20 through university. Free tennis lessons? Good grief. Can we just quit it with all these middle class rip offs please. Free football lessons, that might be something. Whether the £20bn recycling is supposed to include "already announced" items like ID cards and nuclear, I don't know. Perhaps I should call the leader insane until I find out. Hywel, a high speed rail network wouldn’t have to be paid for in one year, and I’m assuming the £20bn is an annual figure. Cut-price trident is a saving compared to full-price trident.

Better pensions, frankly, demand an increase in the retirement age. I don’t expect, when I am 120, my pension, and that of my children of 95 and their children of 70 will all be paid for by my great grandchildren of 45, who are also supporting their children of 20 through university.

Free tennis lessons? Good grief. Can we just quit it with all these middle class rip offs please. Free football lessons, that might be something.

Whether the £20bn recycling is supposed to include “already announced” items like ID cards and nuclear, I don’t know. Perhaps I should call the leader insane until I find out.

]]> By: Hywel http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2008/09/08/nick-clegg-dismisses-u-turn-on-tax-as-mere-details/comment-page-1/#comment-200653 Hywel Mon, 08 Sep 2008 14:08:50 +0000 http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/?p=1613#comment-200653 "a) the 4p cut in income tax, paid for by green taxes and closing loopholes b) £20bn in savings to go into spending commitments, then tax cuts." Not a lot of (b) left for tax cuts if you look at the pledges we've made i) More police paid for from ID cards ii) Apollo project for renewables (paid for from savings from the new nukes program?) iii) £2.5bn for pupil premium (Cleggs figure) iv) New high speed rail network (estimates for one London-Scotland link are around £12-19bn - some of this would be met from new taxes admitedly) v) Our cut-price trident replacement vi) Delivering better pensions and ending the inequality between men and women vi) The other numerous spending pledges people make - more school playing fields, free tennis lessons for under 16s, increased financial education. “a) the 4p cut in income tax, paid for by green taxes and closing loopholes
b) £20bn in savings to go into spending commitments, then tax cuts.”

Not a lot of (b) left for tax cuts if you look at the pledges we’ve made
i) More police paid for from ID cards
ii) Apollo project for renewables (paid for from savings from the new nukes program?)
iii) £2.5bn for pupil premium (Cleggs figure)
iv) New high speed rail network (estimates for one London-Scotland link are around £12-19bn – some of this would be met from new taxes admitedly)
v) Our cut-price trident replacement
vi) Delivering better pensions and ending the inequality between men and women
vi) The other numerous spending pledges people make – more school playing fields, free tennis lessons for under 16s, increased financial education.

]]> By: James Graham http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2008/09/08/nick-clegg-dismisses-u-turn-on-tax-as-mere-details/comment-page-1/#comment-200634 James Graham Mon, 08 Sep 2008 11:44:07 +0000 http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/?p=1613#comment-200634 Come off it Joe - it doesn't convince. I can't put it better than <a href="http://www.libdemvoice.org/nick-clegg-on-cutting-taxes-3573.html#comment-60407" rel="nofollow">my new best (candid) friend</a>. Come off it Joe – it doesn’t convince. I can’t put it better than my new best (candid) friend.

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