Comments on: Referendums don’t resolve anything http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2007/09/15/referendums-dont-resolve-anything/ “ferocity with a purpose” Sat, 13 Mar 2010 20:30:54 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: GaffaUK http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2007/09/15/referendums-dont-resolve-anything/comment-page-1/#comment-89644 GaffaUK Sun, 16 Sep 2007 09:23:55 +0000 http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2007/09/15/referendums-dont-resolve-anything/#comment-89644 After a year and half I think we can clearly see that Ming has performed poorly as leader and in the next election the Lib-Dems will suffer in terms of seats. This is not a media invention. I only hope the party wakes up from being in denial and replaces him before the election. The mess he made this week over Europe will show the Lib-dems as inconsistent, divided and confused. After a year and half I think we can clearly see that Ming has performed poorly as leader and in the next election the Lib-Dems will suffer in terms of seats. This is not a media invention. I only hope the party wakes up from being in denial and replaces him before the election. The mess he made this week over Europe will show the Lib-dems as inconsistent, divided and confused.

]]> By: James Graham http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2007/09/15/referendums-dont-resolve-anything/comment-page-1/#comment-89516 James Graham Sat, 15 Sep 2007 19:13:03 +0000 http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2007/09/15/referendums-dont-resolve-anything/#comment-89516 I disagree about the difference between a referendum on EU membership and on the reforming treaty since the arguments about two are tangled up anyway. As I said yesterday, the key question is whether or not the Lib Dems will support a vote on the treaty after their attempt to push for a referendum on membership has fallen. If they do - and Ming has not ruled that out yet - then I don't have a problem. I'm not concerned about being "divisive" regarding any putative alliance between the TUC and the Tories. Division is their stock in trade. We shall have to see. I would maintain that you have more chance of changing things on the inside than you'll ever have outside though. There however I suspect we'll have to agree to disagree. I disagree about the difference between a referendum on EU membership and on the reforming treaty since the arguments about two are tangled up anyway.

As I said yesterday, the key question is whether or not the Lib Dems will support a vote on the treaty after their attempt to push for a referendum on membership has fallen. If they do – and Ming has not ruled that out yet – then I don’t have a problem. I’m not concerned about being “divisive” regarding any putative alliance between the TUC and the Tories. Division is their stock in trade.

We shall have to see. I would maintain that you have more chance of changing things on the inside than you’ll ever have outside though. There however I suspect we’ll have to agree to disagree.

]]> By: GaffaUK http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2007/09/15/referendums-dont-resolve-anything/comment-page-1/#comment-89487 GaffaUK Sat, 15 Sep 2007 15:27:09 +0000 http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2007/09/15/referendums-dont-resolve-anything/#comment-89487 I thought about going and asking Ming in the Q and A session but then I thought it would a wasted trip. He has plainly made up his mind by his statement and I wonder who he consulted. Wouldn't it have been better for Ming to have consulted the party, open it up for discussion and then made his mind up before making such statements? I feel his call for a referendum on EU membership is unneccessary and a foolish smokescreen. It just cause more division and derision. At least people can vote for UKIP if they want to get out of Europe. All I wanted was for Ming to keep his word in regards to supporting a referendum on the European Treaty. With the Tories, Labour backbenches and the TUC we could really have put a squeeze on Brown. Now Ming has blown that. And for what? I thought about going and asking Ming in the Q and A session but then I thought it would a wasted trip. He has plainly made up his mind by his statement and I wonder who he consulted. Wouldn’t it have been better for Ming to have consulted the party, open it up for discussion and then made his mind up before making such statements?
I feel his call for a referendum on EU membership is unneccessary and a foolish smokescreen. It just cause more division and derision. At least people can vote for UKIP if they want to get out of Europe. All I wanted was for Ming to keep his word in regards to supporting a referendum on the European Treaty. With the Tories, Labour backbenches and the TUC we could really have put a squeeze on Brown. Now Ming has blown that. And for what?

]]> By: James Graham http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2007/09/15/referendums-dont-resolve-anything/comment-page-1/#comment-89481 James Graham Sat, 15 Sep 2007 14:38:23 +0000 http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2007/09/15/referendums-dont-resolve-anything/#comment-89481 I'm sorry to hear you've done that Dave, although given that Ming is now committed to a referendum (albeit on a different question), I have to say I'm surprised you didn't wait at least until how conference panned out. I’m sorry to hear you’ve done that Dave, although given that Ming is now committed to a referendum (albeit on a different question), I have to say I’m surprised you didn’t wait at least until how conference panned out.

]]> By: GaffaUK http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2007/09/15/referendums-dont-resolve-anything/comment-page-1/#comment-89479 GaffaUK Sat, 15 Sep 2007 14:25:35 +0000 http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2007/09/15/referendums-dont-resolve-anything/#comment-89479 Well I have felt so strongly over this issue and that Ming has effectively done a U-Turn on supporting calls for the European Treaty that I have resigned from the Liberal Democrats. Whatever you think of Referendums and Europe - basically there was a promise to hold one AND the treaty is not substantially different from the Constitution. No wonder people are cynical about politicians. Time for Ming to resign! Well I have felt so strongly over this issue and that Ming has effectively done a U-Turn on supporting calls for the European Treaty that I have resigned from the Liberal Democrats. Whatever you think of Referendums and Europe – basically there was a promise to hold one AND the treaty is not substantially different from the Constitution. No wonder people are cynical about politicians. Time for Ming to resign!

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