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	<title>Comments on: How society has failed Frances Lawrence</title>
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	<link>http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2007/08/21/how-society-has-failed-frances-lawrence/</link>
	<description>"crass, boorish and more a bruiser than blogger" - Alex Wilcock</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 20:16:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Paul Walter</title>
		<link>http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2007/08/21/how-society-has-failed-frances-lawrence/#comment-84836</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Walter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Aug 2007 21:20:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Just back from holiday long enough to read this. An excellently argued piece, James. I think Iain Dale has introduced a red herring which even the Tory spokespeople/David Cameron haven't mentioned - the length of original sentence. The item under discussion is the deportation decision and as Laurence Boyce commented: "If Chindamo is still a risk, he should be kept in jail, not sent to Italy."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just back from holiday long enough to read this. An excellently argued piece, James. I think Iain Dale has introduced a red herring which even the Tory spokespeople/David Cameron haven&#8217;t mentioned - the length of original sentence. The item under discussion is the deportation decision and as Laurence Boyce commented: &#8220;If Chindamo is still a risk, he should be kept in jail, not sent to Italy.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Liberal Democrat Voice &#187; Top of the Blogs: The Golden Dozen #27</title>
		<link>http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2007/08/21/how-society-has-failed-frances-lawrence/#comment-84282</link>
		<dc:creator>Liberal Democrat Voice &#187; Top of the Blogs: The Golden Dozen #27</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Aug 2007 13:52:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2007/08/21/how-society-has-failed-frances-lawrence/#comment-84282</guid>
		<description>[...] How society has failed Frances Lawrence on James Graham&#8217;s Quaequam! blog &#8220;No-one wishes to cause Frances Lawrence or her family [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] How society has failed Frances Lawrence on James Graham&#8217;s Quaequam! blog &#8220;No-one wishes to cause Frances Lawrence or her family [...]</p>
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		<title>By: links for 2007-08-23 &#171; Error Gorilla</title>
		<link>http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2007/08/21/how-society-has-failed-frances-lawrence/#comment-83607</link>
		<dc:creator>links for 2007-08-23 &#171; Error Gorilla</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 15:22:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2007/08/21/how-society-has-failed-frances-lawrence/#comment-83607</guid>
		<description>[...] How society has failed Frances Lawrence Scrapping the Human Rights Act won’t bring her husband back and it won’t get her justice. (tags: civilliberties inequality politics society) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] How society has failed Frances Lawrence Scrapping the Human Rights Act won’t bring her husband back and it won’t get her justice. (tags: civilliberties inequality politics society) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: john b</title>
		<link>http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2007/08/21/how-society-has-failed-frances-lawrence/#comment-83606</link>
		<dc:creator>john b</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 15:15:56 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Can we keep Chindamo and instead kick out all the evil b-stards who think we should execute children?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can we keep Chindamo and instead kick out all the evil b-stards who think we should execute children?</p>
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		<title>By: Hywel Morgan</title>
		<link>http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2007/08/21/how-society-has-failed-frances-lawrence/#comment-83427</link>
		<dc:creator>Hywel Morgan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Aug 2007 17:34:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2007/08/21/how-society-has-failed-frances-lawrence/#comment-83427</guid>
		<description>"A leopard never changes his spots and neither will Chindamo."

Leslie Grantham was convicted of murder and served 10 years in prison.  He seems to have changed his spots since (whether acting in Eastenders constitutes a useful contribution to society is perhaps an arguable point :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;A leopard never changes his spots and neither will Chindamo.&#8221;</p>
<p>Leslie Grantham was convicted of murder and served 10 years in prison.  He seems to have changed his spots since (whether acting in Eastenders constitutes a useful contribution to society is perhaps an arguable point <img src='http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Chicken Yoghurt &#187; Picking over the bones</title>
		<link>http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2007/08/21/how-society-has-failed-frances-lawrence/#comment-83323</link>
		<dc:creator>Chicken Yoghurt &#187; Picking over the bones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Aug 2007 11:24:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2007/08/21/how-society-has-failed-frances-lawrence/#comment-83323</guid>
		<description>[...] This is very good.    Filed under miscellaneous misanthropy, UK Politics See also And some have [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This is very good.    Filed under miscellaneous misanthropy, UK Politics See also And some have [...]</p>
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		<title>By: crobe</title>
		<link>http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2007/08/21/how-society-has-failed-frances-lawrence/#comment-83194</link>
		<dc:creator>crobe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Aug 2007 22:07:27 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Chindamo should have lost all his so called human rights when he comitted this appaling murder. As far as I am concerned everyones human rights are to go about their lawful business. Period.  A leopard never changes his spots and neither will Chindamo. With scumbags like him the answer is to give them a fair trial and then hang them or close to this. Failing that a life sentence should mean just that like in the USA. I hope Chindamo rots in hell. Will the governments of this country ever WAKE UP!!!!. My sincere  good wishes to the very brave Mrs. Lawrence and her family.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chindamo should have lost all his so called human rights when he comitted this appaling murder. As far as I am concerned everyones human rights are to go about their lawful business. Period.  A leopard never changes his spots and neither will Chindamo. With scumbags like him the answer is to give them a fair trial and then hang them or close to this. Failing that a life sentence should mean just that like in the USA. I hope Chindamo rots in hell. Will the governments of this country ever WAKE UP!!!!. My sincere  good wishes to the very brave Mrs. Lawrence and her family.</p>
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		<title>By: Laurence Boyce</title>
		<link>http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2007/08/21/how-society-has-failed-frances-lawrence/#comment-83190</link>
		<dc:creator>Laurence Boyce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Aug 2007 21:15:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2007/08/21/how-society-has-failed-frances-lawrence/#comment-83190</guid>
		<description>Excellent article James. If Chindamo is still a risk, he should be kept in jail, not sent to Italy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent article James. If Chindamo is still a risk, he should be kept in jail, not sent to Italy.</p>
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		<title>By: Angus Huck</title>
		<link>http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2007/08/21/how-society-has-failed-frances-lawrence/#comment-83168</link>
		<dc:creator>Angus Huck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Aug 2007 18:47:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2007/08/21/how-society-has-failed-frances-lawrence/#comment-83168</guid>
		<description>Well said, James.

The authoritarian right (and its tabloid cheerleaders) are doing their damndest to undermine a basic principle of English law: criminals are punished, not to provide "justice" for victims (whatever that may mean), but to maintain and preserve the Queen's peace (ie, protect the public).

Learco Chindamo is in jail, not to make Mrs Lawrence feel good or to satisfy her desire for revenge, but because the law considers that the whole community needs protection from those who kill other human beings.

In English law, it makes not the slightest difference if Chindamo killed a devoutly Roman Catholic headmaster or an alcoholic down-and-out with no family or friends. In Sharia law, by contrast, it makes every difference. If the victim pardons the criminal, then the criminal walks free. If the victim wants him dead, then he dies. Indeed, quite recently, a Saudi man pardoned his son's murderer so he could get into Paradise more easily. The killer was freed.

Is this the kind of "justice" we want? Frances Lawrence and the right-wing groups making use of her appear to be calling for something that at the very least incorporates aspects of it.

We had a similar furore a few years ago over the release of Robert Thompson and Jon Venbales (the killers of James Bulger). The tabloids (some of whom came perilously close to inciting the murder of Thompson and Venables) were saying that the two killers should be locked up for as long as James Bulger's mother wished (so she, and the dead James, could have "justice"). As I said at the time, are Mrs Fergus (or the shadowy groups manipulating her) going to pick up the bill?

The politicians, once again, prove themselves utterly craven in the face of tabloid clamour ("clamour" is the term employed by Lord Goff in the Thompson and Venables case). And that is precisely why we need an independent judiciary and a Human Right Act.

Frances Lawrence is one of the least qualified people on Earth to say what should be done with Learco Chindamo, because she is completely lacking in objectivity (obviously and understandably).

Mrs Lawrence is being set up by sections of the media as some kind of secular saint whose words may not be criticised. What we do need to bear in mind is (1) her history of expressing socially authoritarian opinions which she knows full well the media will broadcast far and wide, and (2) her close association with right-wing groups, such as the Police Federation and the ex-MP Harry Greenway (well-known for his homophobia and collection of antique canes).

Has Iain Dale ever argued that Tony Martin should have been kept in jail to provide "justice" for the late Freddie Barrass and his family?

Get my point?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well said, James.</p>
<p>The authoritarian right (and its tabloid cheerleaders) are doing their damndest to undermine a basic principle of English law: criminals are punished, not to provide &#8220;justice&#8221; for victims (whatever that may mean), but to maintain and preserve the Queen&#8217;s peace (ie, protect the public).</p>
<p>Learco Chindamo is in jail, not to make Mrs Lawrence feel good or to satisfy her desire for revenge, but because the law considers that the whole community needs protection from those who kill other human beings.</p>
<p>In English law, it makes not the slightest difference if Chindamo killed a devoutly Roman Catholic headmaster or an alcoholic down-and-out with no family or friends. In Sharia law, by contrast, it makes every difference. If the victim pardons the criminal, then the criminal walks free. If the victim wants him dead, then he dies. Indeed, quite recently, a Saudi man pardoned his son&#8217;s murderer so he could get into Paradise more easily. The killer was freed.</p>
<p>Is this the kind of &#8220;justice&#8221; we want? Frances Lawrence and the right-wing groups making use of her appear to be calling for something that at the very least incorporates aspects of it.</p>
<p>We had a similar furore a few years ago over the release of Robert Thompson and Jon Venbales (the killers of James Bulger). The tabloids (some of whom came perilously close to inciting the murder of Thompson and Venables) were saying that the two killers should be locked up for as long as James Bulger&#8217;s mother wished (so she, and the dead James, could have &#8220;justice&#8221;). As I said at the time, are Mrs Fergus (or the shadowy groups manipulating her) going to pick up the bill?</p>
<p>The politicians, once again, prove themselves utterly craven in the face of tabloid clamour (&#8221;clamour&#8221; is the term employed by Lord Goff in the Thompson and Venables case). And that is precisely why we need an independent judiciary and a Human Right Act.</p>
<p>Frances Lawrence is one of the least qualified people on Earth to say what should be done with Learco Chindamo, because she is completely lacking in objectivity (obviously and understandably).</p>
<p>Mrs Lawrence is being set up by sections of the media as some kind of secular saint whose words may not be criticised. What we do need to bear in mind is (1) her history of expressing socially authoritarian opinions which she knows full well the media will broadcast far and wide, and (2) her close association with right-wing groups, such as the Police Federation and the ex-MP Harry Greenway (well-known for his homophobia and collection of antique canes).</p>
<p>Has Iain Dale ever argued that Tony Martin should have been kept in jail to provide &#8220;justice&#8221; for the late Freddie Barrass and his family?</p>
<p>Get my point?</p>
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		<title>By: Jock</title>
		<link>http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2007/08/21/how-society-has-failed-frances-lawrence/#comment-83150</link>
		<dc:creator>Jock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Aug 2007 17:13:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Dosn't seem to me that Frances Lawrence is the sort of person to have been pushed about by politicians in this.  Her presence in all the media and willingness to speak about it says as much.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dosn&#8217;t seem to me that Frances Lawrence is the sort of person to have been pushed about by politicians in this.  Her presence in all the media and willingness to speak about it says as much.</p>
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