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	<title>Comments on: EXCLUSIVE (really this time!): Tories brag about dirty tricks</title>
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	<link>http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2007/07/09/exclusive-really-this-time-tories-brag-about-dirty-tricks/</link>
	<description>“ferocity with a purpose”</description>
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		<title>By: Pickled Politics &#187; Tories invite Khalistani politics</title>
		<link>http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2007/07/09/exclusive-really-this-time-tories-brag-about-dirty-tricks/comment-page-1/#comment-71921</link>
		<dc:creator>Pickled Politics &#187; Tories invite Khalistani politics</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jul 2007 14:28:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] councillor in Southall defects to the Tories. And while one Tory activist is caught bragging about nicking leaflets, their campaign manager is busy pretending to be a LibDem on YouTube. What a funny election!    [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] councillor in Southall defects to the Tories. And while one Tory activist is caught bragging about nicking leaflets, their campaign manager is busy pretending to be a LibDem on YouTube. What a funny election!    [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Leon</title>
		<link>http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2007/07/09/exclusive-really-this-time-tories-brag-about-dirty-tricks/comment-page-1/#comment-71893</link>
		<dc:creator>Leon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jul 2007 12:46:41 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Isn&#039;t stealing mail a crime? Shouldn&#039;t this evidence be handed to the local police?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Isn&#8217;t stealing mail a crime? Shouldn&#8217;t this evidence be handed to the local police?</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Paul</title>
		<link>http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2007/07/09/exclusive-really-this-time-tories-brag-about-dirty-tricks/comment-page-1/#comment-71861</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jul 2007 10:25:41 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Wasn&#039;t it Lord Young who combined boasting about doing this with FRAMING another party with walking on some wet concrete?? Tories are top toff tieves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wasn&#8217;t it Lord Young who combined boasting about doing this with FRAMING another party with walking on some wet concrete?? Tories are top toff tieves.</p>
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		<title>By: Ministry of Truth &#187; Bigmouth Strikes Again&#8230;</title>
		<link>http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2007/07/09/exclusive-really-this-time-tories-brag-about-dirty-tricks/comment-page-1/#comment-71850</link>
		<dc:creator>Ministry of Truth &#187; Bigmouth Strikes Again&#8230;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jul 2007 10:05:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] (via) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] (via) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Ireland</title>
		<link>http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2007/07/09/exclusive-really-this-time-tories-brag-about-dirty-tricks/comment-page-1/#comment-71849</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Ireland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jul 2007 09:51:29 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Ah, yes... the &quot;But everybody does it!&quot; defence. Dizzy Thinks, ladies and gentlemen!

(Locally, we&#039;ve had Tories stealing personally addressed hand-delivered literature and dropping it in local mailboxes... meaning that the recipients receive their opponents&#039; literature postage due. Perhaps great legals minds could cast a ruling on that one.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, yes&#8230; the &#8220;But everybody does it!&#8221; defence. Dizzy Thinks, ladies and gentlemen!</p>
<p>(Locally, we&#8217;ve had Tories stealing personally addressed hand-delivered literature and dropping it in local mailboxes&#8230; meaning that the recipients receive their opponents&#8217; literature postage due. Perhaps great legals minds could cast a ruling on that one.)</p>
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		<title>By: James Graham</title>
		<link>http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2007/07/09/exclusive-really-this-time-tories-brag-about-dirty-tricks/comment-page-1/#comment-71835</link>
		<dc:creator>James Graham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jul 2007 08:41:51 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Hywel - 

In any case, a lot of what we were delivering this weekend WAS addressed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hywel &#8211; </p>
<p>In any case, a lot of what we were delivering this weekend WAS addressed.</p>
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		<title>By: Jo</title>
		<link>http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2007/07/09/exclusive-really-this-time-tories-brag-about-dirty-tricks/comment-page-1/#comment-71732</link>
		<dc:creator>Jo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jul 2007 01:00:51 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Tip -

how do you send the URL to google and internet archive, will keep my eyes open!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tip -</p>
<p>how do you send the URL to google and internet archive, will keep my eyes open!</p>
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		<title>By: Hywel Morgan</title>
		<link>http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2007/07/09/exclusive-really-this-time-tories-brag-about-dirty-tricks/comment-page-1/#comment-71727</link>
		<dc:creator>Hywel Morgan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jul 2007 23:56:53 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Dizzy says... &quot;As it happens I had a long discussion with a barrister last eyar about the legality/illegality of this. Technically speaking, unless the leaflets are addresses directly to a homeowner it is not â€œtheftâ€ apparently.&quot;

I doubt that last bit is correct in law.  There are specific provisions about addressed mail but theft doesn&#039;t depend on the property being clearly identified. 

Did he/she say why not?  Theft = dishonest appropriation of property belonging to another with the intent to permanently deprive.

In any case they can&#039;t have been advising on a specific set of facts.  The tricky bit as regards theft in this situation is the mens rea of dishonesty.  However that seems to be present here as they have admitted they were stealing.

That would seem to suggest that they didn&#039;t believe their actions were in accordance with the standards of ordinary people which is the relevant part of the legal test for dishonesty.

It is also potentially a specific electoral offence - s115 RPA.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dizzy says&#8230; &#8220;As it happens I had a long discussion with a barrister last eyar about the legality/illegality of this. Technically speaking, unless the leaflets are addresses directly to a homeowner it is not â€œtheftâ€ apparently.&#8221;</p>
<p>I doubt that last bit is correct in law.  There are specific provisions about addressed mail but theft doesn&#8217;t depend on the property being clearly identified. </p>
<p>Did he/she say why not?  Theft = dishonest appropriation of property belonging to another with the intent to permanently deprive.</p>
<p>In any case they can&#8217;t have been advising on a specific set of facts.  The tricky bit as regards theft in this situation is the mens rea of dishonesty.  However that seems to be present here as they have admitted they were stealing.</p>
<p>That would seem to suggest that they didn&#8217;t believe their actions were in accordance with the standards of ordinary people which is the relevant part of the legal test for dishonesty.</p>
<p>It is also potentially a specific electoral offence &#8211; s115 RPA.</p>
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		<title>By: MatGB</title>
		<link>http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2007/07/09/exclusive-really-this-time-tories-brag-about-dirty-tricks/comment-page-1/#comment-71677</link>
		<dc:creator>MatGB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jul 2007 17:23:41 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>It&#039;s not so much that he&#039;s done it that bothers me (I was tempted yesterday but resisted), it&#039;s that he&#039;s openly boasted about it in a fairly public location.

It&#039;s probably true that activists from all parties do do this sort of thing, but to actively shout about it in a way that makes it look as if you&#039;re proud of doing it is a little OTT.

But agree with the point that they should be pushed completely through the door, not a problem then.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s not so much that he&#8217;s done it that bothers me (I was tempted yesterday but resisted), it&#8217;s that he&#8217;s openly boasted about it in a fairly public location.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s probably true that activists from all parties do do this sort of thing, but to actively shout about it in a way that makes it look as if you&#8217;re proud of doing it is a little OTT.</p>
<p>But agree with the point that they should be pushed completely through the door, not a problem then.</p>
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		<title>By: Laurence Boyce</title>
		<link>http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2007/07/09/exclusive-really-this-time-tories-brag-about-dirty-tricks/comment-page-1/#comment-71676</link>
		<dc:creator>Laurence Boyce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jul 2007 17:02:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Iâ€™m so sorry I keep pissing you off James, I really am. Not least because youâ€™re my favourite Lib Dem, which must annoy you even more! Richard Dawkins says it best:

&lt;i&gt;Why are forest trees so tall? Simply to overtop rival trees. A â€œsensibleâ€ utility function would see to it that they were all short. They would get exactly the same amount of sunlight, with far less expenditure on thick trunks and massive supporting buttresses. But if they were all short, natural selection couldnâ€™t help favouring a variant individual that grew a little taller. The ante having been upped, others would have to follow suit. Nothing can stop the whole game escalating until all trees are ludicrously and wastefully tall. . . . Homely analogies abound. At a cocktail party, you shout yourself hoarse. The reason is that everybody else is shouting at top volume. If only the guests could come to an agreement to whisper, theyâ€™d hear one another exactly as well with less voice strain and less expenditure of energy. But agreements like that donâ€™t work unless they are policed. Somebody always spoils it by selfishly talking a bit louder, and, one by one, everybody has to follow suit. A stable equilibrium is reached only when everybody is shouting as loudly as physically possible, and this is much louder than required from a â€œrationalâ€ point of view. Time and again, cooperative restraint is thwarted by its own internal instability.&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Iâ€™m so sorry I keep pissing you off James, I really am. Not least because youâ€™re my favourite Lib Dem, which must annoy you even more! Richard Dawkins says it best:</p>
<p><i>Why are forest trees so tall? Simply to overtop rival trees. A â€œsensibleâ€ utility function would see to it that they were all short. They would get exactly the same amount of sunlight, with far less expenditure on thick trunks and massive supporting buttresses. But if they were all short, natural selection couldnâ€™t help favouring a variant individual that grew a little taller. The ante having been upped, others would have to follow suit. Nothing can stop the whole game escalating until all trees are ludicrously and wastefully tall. . . . Homely analogies abound. At a cocktail party, you shout yourself hoarse. The reason is that everybody else is shouting at top volume. If only the guests could come to an agreement to whisper, theyâ€™d hear one another exactly as well with less voice strain and less expenditure of energy. But agreements like that donâ€™t work unless they are policed. Somebody always spoils it by selfishly talking a bit louder, and, one by one, everybody has to follow suit. A stable equilibrium is reached only when everybody is shouting as loudly as physically possible, and this is much louder than required from a â€œrationalâ€ point of view. Time and again, cooperative restraint is thwarted by its own internal instability.</i></p>
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