Comments on: Panic or black propaganda? http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2006/02/02/panic-or-black-propaganda-2/ "crass, boorish and more a bruiser than blogger" - Alex Wilcock Thu, 08 Jan 2009 23:09:40 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: Angus J Huck http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2006/02/02/panic-or-black-propaganda-2/#comment-876 Angus J Huck Sat, 04 Feb 2006 01:39:16 +0000 http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2006/02/02/panic-or-black-propaganda-2/#comment-876 I did not recall that Simon had denied the allegation. But I do remember George Dunk treating it as true and expressing indignation. That jarring phrase "radical cutting edge" was used by supporters of Dr David Owen when Owen was attempting to become Leader of the SDP in 1983 to suggest that their man was somehow to the left of Roy Jenkins (somewhat ironic, considering what eventuated). Owen is one of a class of persons who poses as a radical and an iconoclast but is in reality deeply reactionary and pro-establishment (Lord Denning is another classic example). Simon Hughes certainly is a radical, but the trouble is, his cutting-edge isn't always accurately directed. I did not recall that Simon had denied the allegation.

But I do remember George Dunk treating it as true and expressing indignation.

That jarring phrase “radical cutting edge” was used by supporters of Dr David Owen when Owen was attempting to become Leader of the SDP in 1983 to suggest that their man was somehow to the left of Roy Jenkins (somewhat ironic, considering what eventuated).

Owen is one of a class of persons who poses as a radical and an iconoclast but is in reality deeply reactionary and pro-establishment (Lord Denning is another classic example).

Simon Hughes certainly is a radical, but the trouble is, his cutting-edge isn’t always accurately directed.

]]> By: Stephen http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2006/02/02/panic-or-black-propaganda-2/#comment-866 Stephen Thu, 02 Feb 2006 18:41:14 +0000 http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2006/02/02/panic-or-black-propaganda-2/#comment-866 So far as I can tell from this thread, no-one actually has the slightest idea, let alone any proof, who might be responsible for these rumours. Which makes the idle speculation a tad pointless... So far as I can tell from this thread, no-one actually has the slightest idea, let alone any proof, who might be responsible for these rumours. Which makes the idle speculation a tad pointless…

]]> By: David Morton http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2006/02/02/panic-or-black-propaganda-2/#comment-865 David Morton Thu, 02 Feb 2006 18:33:32 +0000 http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2006/02/02/panic-or-black-propaganda-2/#comment-865 sorry james, I do think you have got this completetly wrong. To ask your cui bono? question the answer is the young turks (davey,clegg and laws) who are backing ming as a temporary proxy for there own (entirely legitimate ambitions) The worst case senario is a 10 year huhne leadership at the end of which the intake of 2005 will be contenders. the bext case senario is huhne does very well and will fight again when ming leaves. However he will now have vastly higher name recognition, organisation. As a second place leadership contender he may well get the vacant "big job" going which the others may have felt belonged to them. basically there "coronation" and now "bridge to the future" strategy is going tits up and they are bitching publically. and after the way kennedy was disposed of who can be surprised? sorry james, I do think you have got this completetly wrong. To ask your cui bono? question the answer is the young turks (davey,clegg and laws) who are backing ming as a temporary proxy for there own (entirely legitimate ambitions)
The worst case senario is a 10 year huhne leadership at the end of which the intake of 2005 will be contenders. the bext case senario is huhne does very well and will fight again when ming leaves. However he will now have vastly higher name recognition, organisation. As a second place leadership contender he may well get the vacant “big job” going which the others may have felt belonged to them. basically there “coronation” and now “bridge to the future” strategy is going tits up and they are bitching publically. and after the way kennedy was disposed of who can be surprised?

]]> By: Sam http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2006/02/02/panic-or-black-propaganda-2/#comment-862 Sam Thu, 02 Feb 2006 16:30:08 +0000 http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2006/02/02/panic-or-black-propaganda-2/#comment-862 I think you've called this one wrong James. This briefing is very similar in tone to what some of the Campbell campaign MPs have been saying a little too conspicuously around the place. They are clearly worried about the impact Huhne's campaign is having and see their own 'young cardinals' strategy starting to turn 'tits up'. The critcism of Huhne's record in the EU is quite bizarre. Through his work in the EU - particularly on the Finance Committee - Huhne has actually improved EU legislation that affects UK businesses to a far great extent than most Lib Dem MPs can dream of. And while he may not have put down loads of environmental questions - he presumably left that to the Lib Dem MEPs responsible for environmental matters - he certainly campaigned hard on green issues in the South East as MEP. I think you’ve called this one wrong James.

This briefing is very similar in tone to what some of the Campbell campaign MPs have been saying a little too conspicuously around the place.

They are clearly worried about the impact Huhne’s campaign is having and see their own ‘young cardinals’ strategy starting to turn ‘tits up’.

The critcism of Huhne’s record in the EU is quite bizarre. Through his work in the EU - particularly on the Finance Committee - Huhne has actually improved EU legislation that affects UK businesses to a far great extent than most Lib Dem MPs can dream of.

And while he may not have put down loads of environmental questions - he presumably left that to the Lib Dem MEPs responsible for environmental matters - he certainly campaigned hard on green issues in the South East as MEP.

]]> By: Will http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2006/02/02/panic-or-black-propaganda-2/#comment-861 Will Thu, 02 Feb 2006 16:05:55 +0000 http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2006/02/02/panic-or-black-propaganda-2/#comment-861 Not having taken an interest in politics at the time, I didn't know that defection allegation had ever been directed at Simon. Apparently, it was made in a story in the Observer. I can't track down that article, but here are bits from some others that reference it. The Sunday Times, 25 June 1989: Simon Hughes, the Democrat MP, is threatening to join the Greens, giving them their first voice in the Commons, claims the Observer. The paper claims that Hughes has given his party a four-month ultimatum that unless it resolves its internal differences, he will consider defecting to the Green party. But Hughes told The Sunday Times: 'I couldn't join the Greens because they have policies on Europe that I do not believe in. 'What I am saying is that we have to get a radical cutting edge to our own party. It needs to be seen to be a green party and it needs to be a proper Liberal party. If not, I will have to decide what I am going to do in parliaments to come. I wouldn't resign in this parliament.' The Independent, 26 June 1989: Simon Hughes, the Liberal Democrat MP for Southwark and Bermondsey, has denied an Observer report that he was threatening to defect to the Green Party. He said in a statement: 'I was elected as a Liberal, my constituents expect me to stay in Parliament on the platform on which I was elected, and that I will do until the end of this Parliament.' The Time (Atticus), 5 February 1989: Paddy Ashdown's Social and Liberal Democrats seem to have won the battle for the green vote. A letter addressed simply to 'The Green party, House of Commons' was duly delivered to Simon Hughes, the Democrat MP for Bermondsey, who once threatened to stand on a Green ticket rather than accept the Liberal-SDP merger. Labour and the SDP were said to be green with envy. Not having taken an interest in politics at the time, I didn’t know that defection allegation had ever been directed at Simon. Apparently, it was made in a story in the Observer. I can’t track down that article, but here are bits from some others that reference it.

The Sunday Times, 25 June 1989:
Simon Hughes, the Democrat MP, is threatening to join the Greens, giving them their first voice in the Commons, claims the Observer.
The paper claims that Hughes has given his party a four-month ultimatum that unless it resolves its internal differences, he will consider defecting to the Green party.
But Hughes told The Sunday Times: ‘I couldn’t join the Greens because they have policies on Europe that I do not believe in.
‘What I am saying is that we have to get a radical cutting edge to our own party. It needs to be seen to be a green party and it needs to be a proper Liberal party. If not, I will have to decide what I am going to do in parliaments to come. I wouldn’t resign in this parliament.’

The Independent, 26 June 1989:
Simon Hughes, the Liberal Democrat MP for Southwark and Bermondsey, has denied an Observer report that he was threatening to defect to the Green Party. He said in a statement: ‘I was elected as a Liberal, my constituents expect me to stay in Parliament on the platform on which I was elected, and that I will do until the end of this Parliament.’

The Time (Atticus), 5 February 1989:
Paddy Ashdown’s Social and Liberal Democrats seem to have won the battle for the green vote. A letter addressed simply to ‘The Green party, House of Commons’ was duly delivered to Simon Hughes, the Democrat MP for Bermondsey, who once threatened to stand on a Green ticket rather than accept the Liberal-SDP merger. Labour and the SDP were said to be green with envy.

]]> By: Rob F http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2006/02/02/panic-or-black-propaganda-2/#comment-860 Rob F Thu, 02 Feb 2006 15:10:40 +0000 http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2006/02/02/panic-or-black-propaganda-2/#comment-860 Have heard a couple of suggestions from well-placed people that Chris's predecessor the Lord Chidgey, who is a publicly declared Ming backer has had a hand in this debacle. But then one of the people who whispered this to me also said that the coulis served up with the breaded chicken in Portcullis House this lunchtime wasn't utterly revolting - a claim that is clearly wrong. So take the claim, and the coulis, with a pinch of salt. Have heard a couple of suggestions from well-placed people that Chris’s predecessor the Lord Chidgey, who is a publicly declared Ming backer has had a hand in this debacle.

But then one of the people who whispered this to me also said that the coulis served up with the breaded chicken in Portcullis House this lunchtime wasn’t utterly revolting - a claim that is clearly wrong.

So take the claim, and the coulis, with a pinch of salt.

]]> By: Anonymous coward http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2006/02/02/panic-or-black-propaganda-2/#comment-859 Anonymous coward Thu, 02 Feb 2006 14:57:34 +0000 http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2006/02/02/panic-or-black-propaganda-2/#comment-859 <strong>MESSAGE DELETED</strong> <em>Sorry "anonymous coward", as <a href="/2006/01/11/comments-policy/">I've already stated</a>, I don't accept anonymous postings on this site. For precisely this reason! - James</em> MESSAGE DELETED
Sorry “anonymous coward”, as I’ve already stated, I don’t accept anonymous postings on this site. For precisely this reason! - James

]]> By: Richard Huzzey http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2006/02/02/panic-or-black-propaganda-2/#comment-858 Richard Huzzey Thu, 02 Feb 2006 13:41:56 +0000 http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2006/02/02/panic-or-black-propaganda-2/#comment-858 The idea that Chris is an "Orange Booker" is interesting. He contributed a chapter on strengthening the United Nations, and publicly attacked the most distasteful parts of the book, as Gareth and Ranald have noted. The idea that Chris is an “Orange Booker” is interesting. He contributed a chapter on strengthening the United Nations, and publicly attacked the most distasteful parts of the book, as Gareth and Ranald have noted.

]]> By: Gareth http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2006/02/02/panic-or-black-propaganda-2/#comment-856 Gareth Thu, 02 Feb 2006 13:29:20 +0000 http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2006/02/02/panic-or-black-propaganda-2/#comment-856 7 - and Liberator link - is spot on. Silence - nobody will defend the indefensible.... 7 - and Liberator link - is spot on.

Silence - nobody will defend the indefensible….

]]> By: Ranald http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2006/02/02/panic-or-black-propaganda-2/#comment-855 Ranald Thu, 02 Feb 2006 12:52:59 +0000 http://www.theliberati.net/quaequamblog/2006/02/02/panic-or-black-propaganda-2/#comment-855 I did qualify my claim with 'as far I know' - my political memory doesn't stretch back as far as 1989, I'm afraid :) I did qualify my claim with ‘as far I know’ - my political memory doesn’t stretch back as far as 1989, I’m afraid :)

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